Go Ahead, Call Me Emergent...
I recently had a conversation with someone about the emergent church. He's super critical of anything labeled "emergent" - as if, somehow, it's a monolithic movement and not just a whole bunch of people trying to figure out life and faith...
Here's a bunch of anti-emergent posters to whet your appetite (okay, they really are funny...heh)
http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/posters.htm
And here's my favorite.
Thing is - this poster can be applied to EVERY "group" of believers. Listen to the very liberal interpretations of the Bible and the very conservative and you're still probably hearing people make the Bible say what they want it to say. We ALL do that to a degree. I have heard more sermons that dissect single words in Greek and Hebrew to tell us "what it really says" - ignoring the context as a whole, of course. And I've done it, I know...
But - this isn't really about that. This is about my problem with the whole "emergent movement." The broad-stroke criticisms of emergent...um...ism are pretty valid: ie, there's no depth, it's all about relevance, mystery, conversation, etc. It's not about knowing, so much, but about experiencing. There's enough truth to those generalizations to make them, well, generalizations.
My problem with the emergent church is not the engagement of culture. That's where my friend got hung up. "Give me one example from the Gospels where Jesus uses something ungodly [he was refering to some guy quoting some Ozzy Osbourne lyrics and using that as a jump off point for the gospel message] to make a connection to the culture." Well, I don't know if Jesus did. I'm not sure there were "secular songs" at the time - maybe there were - dunno. What if - and I know this is heresy - what if the parables that Jesus told were actually stories pretty commonly told among the people - and Jesus used them to teach about the kingdom of heaven? No, I don't have any evidence. That's not the point. The point that my friend was trying to make - Jesus never did that so we can't either - isn't really valid. Jesus never talked about homosexuality - so we shouldn't either (heh - actually, maybe that's not such a bad idea...no, I'm just kidding...). Paul quotes a secular poet in Crete. And he talks about the unknown god in Athens (Titus 1:12). So I think my friend's "show me one example from the Gospels" was a carefully chosen statement, because I think you can make a case for it from the rest of the NT (actually, I think you can probably make a case for it from the Gospels, too, but nothing leaps to mind...)
Here's the poet's words that Paul quotes:
They fashioned a tomb for thee, O holy and high one
The Cretans, always liars, evil beasts, idle bellies!
But thou art not dead: thou livest and abidest forever,
For in thee we live and move and have our being.
Just so you know, that's in honor of ZEUS - yeah, talk about a pretty ungodly source. And I can imagine the kind of twisting and "textual analysis" that will make this okay in a world where you shouldn't make "ungodly references" to make spiritual points...
The Church has claimed to be counter-cultural - yet as I look around at church people (and worse, church LEADERS) - we seem to be every bit as greedy, self-absorbed, self-rightous, and delusional as the culture we claim to hate. Here's a sample from a recent Barna survey:
Faith commitments sometimes play a role in what people do - but less often than might be assumed. In comparing the lifestyle choices of born again Christians to the national norms, there were more areas of similarity than distinction. (Note that in Barna surveys, the born again segment is not based upon whether a person uses that label, but based upon their profession of faith in Christ and confession of personal sin.) Born again Christians are more likely to volunteer for their church; however, they are no more likely than average to help the poor and homeless. Born again Christians were also among the least likely groups to recycle.
In evaluating 15 moral behaviors, born again Christians are statistically indistinguishable from non-born again adults on most of the behaviors studied. They are less likely to view sexually explicit movies and magazines, to use profanity in public, and to buy a lottery ticket. However, even in these cases, the gap between born agains and the norm is not wide - roughly one-third of the non-born again audience say they had engaged in the three activities compared to one-quarter of born again Christians.
The fourth area of difference is the lower rate of music piracy among born again Christians (2% versus 9% among non-born agains).
http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdate&BarnaUpdateID=264
Yeah - we're REALLY counter-cultural. Even my friend has downloaded stuff that he hasn't purchased...sigh...oh, he can justify it (can't we all?) but really... And he's made references to TV shows and movies and music when he's taught and preached. The distinction? Dunno...
So, really, the church talks a good talk against the culture - but is probably a better reflection of the culture at large than a reflection of the Savior.
So - yeah, that's my problem with the church at large (and with me, too, when you come right down to it - still a work in progress).
Here's my problem with the emergent church. In general, it seems like the emergent movement is satisfied with, um, "shallow things." There's no encouragement to grow, and learn, and understand. It seems to be all about conversation and trying to be open - but not too much about depth.
I play guitar. I learned how to play chords - lots of chords. Open chord
s - Barre chords - wierd chords. Made up chords. Don't ask me to play a scale. Don't ask me to do "lead fills." I can't. I can play chords. I'll arpeggiate them for you. BUt they're chords.
No depth. I know it. And I'm okay with it.
For guitar.
But not for faith. It's NOT okay to just drift on the edge of a relationship with Christ. We have to get deeper. And sometimes getting deeper in a relationship means that it can get painful. It wasn't easy talking to Lori about some of the things in my past - but I'm married to her. What if our whole relationship was no deeper than "Good morning. You look beautiful today. Nice weather."? IS that relationship? Yep. But is it a marriage? Nope.
I read a lot of this emergent stuff. And I agree with the fundimental premise: we need to engage people where they are, to show them where Jesus is. I met a guy once who loved the same kind of rock music that I liked to listen to. And he read fantasy novels. And played Dungeons and Dragons. And he was a Christian. And he was instrumental in helping me shape my faith and to know who Jesus really is and that was because we had a connection to the culture at large that we could draw on - and then talk about faith.
And not too long ago that friend of mine said, "Give me one example from the Gospels where Jesus uses something ungodly to make a connection to the culture."
I might not be able to show you where Jesus did it, but I can show you where you did that for me.
Here's a bunch of anti-emergent posters to whet your appetite (okay, they really are funny...heh)
http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/posters.htm
And here's my favorite.
Thing is - this poster can be applied to EVERY "group" of believers. Listen to the very liberal interpretations of the Bible and the very conservative and you're still probably hearing people make the Bible say what they want it to say. We ALL do that to a degree. I have heard more sermons that dissect single words in Greek and Hebrew to tell us "what it really says" - ignoring the context as a whole, of course. And I've done it, I know...
But - this isn't really about that. This is about my problem with the whole "emergent movement." The broad-stroke criticisms of emergent...um...ism are pretty valid: ie, there's no depth, it's all about relevance, mystery, conversation, etc. It's not about knowing, so much, but about experiencing. There's enough truth to those generalizations to make them, well, generalizations.
My problem with the emergent church is not the engagement of culture. That's where my friend got hung up. "Give me one example from the Gospels where Jesus uses something ungodly [he was refering to some guy quoting some Ozzy Osbourne lyrics and using that as a jump off point for the gospel message] to make a connection to the culture." Well, I don't know if Jesus did. I'm not sure there were "secular songs" at the time - maybe there were - dunno. What if - and I know this is heresy - what if the parables that Jesus told were actually stories pretty commonly told among the people - and Jesus used them to teach about the kingdom of heaven? No, I don't have any evidence. That's not the point. The point that my friend was trying to make - Jesus never did that so we can't either - isn't really valid. Jesus never talked about homosexuality - so we shouldn't either (heh - actually, maybe that's not such a bad idea...no, I'm just kidding...). Paul quotes a secular poet in Crete. And he talks about the unknown god in Athens (Titus 1:12). So I think my friend's "show me one example from the Gospels" was a carefully chosen statement, because I think you can make a case for it from the rest of the NT (actually, I think you can probably make a case for it from the Gospels, too, but nothing leaps to mind...)
Here's the poet's words that Paul quotes:
They fashioned a tomb for thee, O holy and high one
The Cretans, always liars, evil beasts, idle bellies!
But thou art not dead: thou livest and abidest forever,
For in thee we live and move and have our being.
Just so you know, that's in honor of ZEUS - yeah, talk about a pretty ungodly source. And I can imagine the kind of twisting and "textual analysis" that will make this okay in a world where you shouldn't make "ungodly references" to make spiritual points...
The Church has claimed to be counter-cultural - yet as I look around at church people (and worse, church LEADERS) - we seem to be every bit as greedy, self-absorbed, self-rightous, and delusional as the culture we claim to hate. Here's a sample from a recent Barna survey:
Faith commitments sometimes play a role in what people do - but less often than might be assumed. In comparing the lifestyle choices of born again Christians to the national norms, there were more areas of similarity than distinction. (Note that in Barna surveys, the born again segment is not based upon whether a person uses that label, but based upon their profession of faith in Christ and confession of personal sin.) Born again Christians are more likely to volunteer for their church; however, they are no more likely than average to help the poor and homeless. Born again Christians were also among the least likely groups to recycle.
In evaluating 15 moral behaviors, born again Christians are statistically indistinguishable from non-born again adults on most of the behaviors studied. They are less likely to view sexually explicit movies and magazines, to use profanity in public, and to buy a lottery ticket. However, even in these cases, the gap between born agains and the norm is not wide - roughly one-third of the non-born again audience say they had engaged in the three activities compared to one-quarter of born again Christians.
The fourth area of difference is the lower rate of music piracy among born again Christians (2% versus 9% among non-born agains).
http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdate&BarnaUpdateID=264
Yeah - we're REALLY counter-cultural. Even my friend has downloaded stuff that he hasn't purchased...sigh...oh, he can justify it (can't we all?) but really... And he's made references to TV shows and movies and music when he's taught and preached. The distinction? Dunno...
So, really, the church talks a good talk against the culture - but is probably a better reflection of the culture at large than a reflection of the Savior.
So - yeah, that's my problem with the church at large (and with me, too, when you come right down to it - still a work in progress).
Here's my problem with the emergent church. In general, it seems like the emergent movement is satisfied with, um, "shallow things." There's no encouragement to grow, and learn, and understand. It seems to be all about conversation and trying to be open - but not too much about depth.
I play guitar. I learned how to play chords - lots of chords. Open chord
s - Barre chords - wierd chords. Made up chords. Don't ask me to play a scale. Don't ask me to do "lead fills." I can't. I can play chords. I'll arpeggiate them for you. BUt they're chords.No depth. I know it. And I'm okay with it.
For guitar.
But not for faith. It's NOT okay to just drift on the edge of a relationship with Christ. We have to get deeper. And sometimes getting deeper in a relationship means that it can get painful. It wasn't easy talking to Lori about some of the things in my past - but I'm married to her. What if our whole relationship was no deeper than "Good morning. You look beautiful today. Nice weather."? IS that relationship? Yep. But is it a marriage? Nope.
I read a lot of this emergent stuff. And I agree with the fundimental premise: we need to engage people where they are, to show them where Jesus is. I met a guy once who loved the same kind of rock music that I liked to listen to. And he read fantasy novels. And played Dungeons and Dragons. And he was a Christian. And he was instrumental in helping me shape my faith and to know who Jesus really is and that was because we had a connection to the culture at large that we could draw on - and then talk about faith.
And not too long ago that friend of mine said, "Give me one example from the Gospels where Jesus uses something ungodly to make a connection to the culture."
I might not be able to show you where Jesus did it, but I can show you where you did that for me.
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